Frank Analytic Discussion about Entitlement Programs

[wbcoleman]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Do you favor paying farmers not to grow stuff?

[Woody]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Enlighten us.

[Ted S]

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

Ditto.

As for me, I don't plan on becoming a farmer nor cultivating my own food.  I'm happy to dig into my own pocket and pay for the kinds of foods I want.  I have a sneaking suspicion that if subsidies were eliminated farming wouldn't go away.  There are lots of people like me who appreciate the work farmers do, and truckers do, and grocers do, and like me I bet they are willing to pay them for bringing us the kinds of food we want.  I don't however want to pay farmers for food I don't like or want.

[wbcoleman]

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

Ditto.

As for me, I don't plan on becoming a farmer nor cultivating my own food.  I'm happy to dig into my own pocket and pay for the kinds of foods I want.  I have a sneaking suspicion that if subsidies were eliminated farming wouldn't go away.  There are lots of people like me who appreciate the work farmers do, and truckers do, and grocers do, and like me I bet they are willing to pay them for bringing us the kinds of food we want.  I don't however want to pay farmers for food I don't like or want.

Years ago in graduate school I had a friend who looked at Federal milk price supports.  He estimated that agricultural policy causes the supermarket price of a carton of milk to be roughly double the free market price.

[clistensprechen]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Enlighten us.

I asked you first. Proceed, please.

[clistensprechen]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Do you favor paying farmers not to grow stuff?

Review the principles of supply and demand. Recognize that growing/raising food involves booms and busts as a given. Whether or not I support the concept depends on the circumstances and which crop under these circumstances. Farmers (contrasted with corporate agribusiness)  have a right to life without starvation too.

It's also not just a simple matter of starvation--it's a matter of being able to hold onto one's property for the next growing season, which can't be done when payments on what's owed can't be made. See also Willie Nelson's crusade.

[clistensprechen]

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

Ditto.

As for me, I don't plan on becoming a farmer nor cultivating my own food.  I'm happy to dig into my own pocket and pay for the kinds of foods I want.  I have a sneaking suspicion that if subsidies were eliminated farming wouldn't go away.  There are lots of people like me who appreciate the work farmers do, and truckers do, and grocers do, and like me I bet they are willing to pay them for bringing us the kinds of food we want.  I don't however want to pay farmers for food I don't like or want.

Years ago in graduate school I had a friend who looked at Federal milk price supports.  He estimated that agricultural policy causes the supermarket price of a carton of milk to be roughly double the free market price.

Over a period of how many years, and do those years include droughts like we've had the past two years in a row?  Your friend's math is faulty.

[wbcoleman]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Do you favor paying farmers not to grow stuff?

Review the principles of supply and demand. Recognize that growing/raising food involves booms and busts as a given. Whether or not I support the concept depends on the circumstances and which crop under these circumstances. Farmers (contrasted with corporate agribusiness)  have a right to life without starvation too.

It's also not just a simple matter of starvation--it's a matter of being able to hold onto one's property for the next growing season, which can't be done when payments on what's owed can't be made. See also Willie Nelson's crusade.

A better explanation -- much better -- can be had from looking at the distribution of voting power in the United States Senate.  Farm supports are a textbook example of logrolling.

[wbcoleman]

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

Ditto.

As for me, I don't plan on becoming a farmer nor cultivating my own food.  I'm happy to dig into my own pocket and pay for the kinds of foods I want.  I have a sneaking suspicion that if subsidies were eliminated farming wouldn't go away.  There are lots of people like me who appreciate the work farmers do, and truckers do, and grocers do, and like me I bet they are willing to pay them for bringing us the kinds of food we want.  I don't however want to pay farmers for food I don't like or want.

Years ago in graduate school I had a friend who looked at Federal milk price supports.  He estimated that agricultural policy causes the supermarket price of a carton of milk to be roughly double the free market price.

Over a period of how many years, and do those years include droughts like we've had the past two years in a row?  Your friend's math is faulty.

The study is approximately twenty-five years old.  Having never laid eyes on it, your comment that the "math is faulty" is nothing but pure ideological bullshit.

[clistensprechen]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Do you favor paying farmers not to grow stuff?

Review the principles of supply and demand. Recognize that growing/raising food involves booms and busts as a given. Whether or not I support the concept depends on the circumstances and which crop under these circumstances. Farmers (contrasted with corporate agribusiness)  have a right to life without starvation too.

It's also not just a simple matter of starvation--it's a matter of being able to hold onto one's property for the next growing season, which can't be done when payments on what's owed can't be made. See also Willie Nelson's crusade.

A better explanation -- much better -- can be had from looking at the distribution of voting power in the United States Senate.  Farm supports are a textbook example of logrolling.

Republican logrolling--most ag states are Republican majority states because of the bennies they get from Republicans by way of subsidies, checkoffs and buy-offs. Go figure.

[clistensprechen]

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

Ditto.

As for me, I don't plan on becoming a farmer nor cultivating my own food.  I'm happy to dig into my own pocket and pay for the kinds of foods I want.  I have a sneaking suspicion that if subsidies were eliminated farming wouldn't go away.  There are lots of people like me who appreciate the work farmers do, and truckers do, and grocers do, and like me I bet they are willing to pay them for bringing us the kinds of food we want.  I don't however want to pay farmers for food I don't like or want.

Years ago in graduate school I had a friend who looked at Federal milk price supports.  He estimated that agricultural policy causes the supermarket price of a carton of milk to be roughly double the free market price.

Over a period of how many years, and do those years include droughts like we've had the past two years in a row?  Your friend's math is faulty.

The study is approximately twenty-five years old.  Having never laid eyes on it, your comment that the "math is faulty" is nothing but pure ideological bullshit.

And that's bullshit--I know the theory behind it and it takes a natural disaster to underscore its necessity. A 25-year-old study that fails to address today's catastrophes is ****.

[clistensprechen]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Enlighten us.

I asked you first. Proceed, please.

Nevermind--Sununu and Romney himself have a problem with the Ryan Plan. It's getting scrapped, and what we're getting is the Romney Plan.

[Woody]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Enlighten us.

I asked you first. Proceed, please.

Nevermind--Sununu and Romney himself have a problem with the Ryan Plan. It's getting scrapped, and what we're getting is the Romney Plan.

It is your point.  Prove your own **** points.  This is a constant problem with you.  You raise a point and then you expect us to do your work. Ya got nothing an to be FRANK, it gets tiring doing your work


Can you link to where Romney is going to scrap the bi partisan Wyden Ryan Medicare plan that is part of the 2013 budget that passed the house?  Ya know, the budget that gat a helluva  a lot more votes than the Obama budget?

[wbcoleman]

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

Ditto.

As for me, I don't plan on becoming a farmer nor cultivating my own food.  I'm happy to dig into my own pocket and pay for the kinds of foods I want.  I have a sneaking suspicion that if subsidies were eliminated farming wouldn't go away.  There are lots of people like me who appreciate the work farmers do, and truckers do, and grocers do, and like me I bet they are willing to pay them for bringing us the kinds of food we want.  I don't however want to pay farmers for food I don't like or want.

Years ago in graduate school I had a friend who looked at Federal milk price supports.  He estimated that agricultural policy causes the supermarket price of a carton of milk to be roughly double the free market price.

Over a period of how many years, and do those years include droughts like we've had the past two years in a row?  Your friend's math is faulty.

The study is approximately twenty-five years old.  Having never laid eyes on it, your comment that the "math is faulty" is nothing but pure ideological bullshit.

And that's bullshit--I know the theory behind it and it takes a natural disaster to underscore its necessity. A 25-year-old study that fails to address today's catastrophes is ****.

You haven't a clue about the data, the theoretical framework, anything.  The work was by a guy who spent thirty years as an antitrust economist in the Department of Justice, serving under Presidents Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama.  He just retired and he knows more about agricultural economics than you do.  Try again.

[clistensprechen]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.

Enlighten us.

I asked you first. Proceed, please.

Nevermind--Sununu and Romney himself have a problem with the Ryan Plan. It's getting scrapped, and what we're getting is the Romney Plan.

It is your point.

It is my question. **** learn English.

Prove your own **** points.

**** answer my question.

This is a constant problem with you.

Asking questions, particularly "why", will always be a problem with me. Get used to it.  And **** get used to answering questions.

You raise a point and then you expect us to do your work.

What I have here is a barn door open for me to call YOU a liar, as you have so often done with me without basis for doing so.  You have handed me a legitimate basis for doing so. Consider it done.