Frank Analytic Discussion about Entitlement Programs

[clistensprechen]

...and that would include the demand for tax cuts as if it was some kind of entitlement.

Food Stamps: originally for the purpose of benefiting both farmers (who used to be independent farmers) and the poor (who are poor because of 1) underpay from employment 2) disability 3) being a minor 4) being a retired senior).  That's not what it is anymore, and you'd think that the conservatives would be all for it because of the additional tax money that ConAgra and Archer Midland Daniels et al also get from other crop subsidies besides getting the crop price supports via Food Stamps. Food Stamps and subsidies are pro-business programs...aka corporate welfare.

Medicare: Ryan wants to preserve that with the argument about preserving access to health care by seniors...when he knows damn well that Medicare is the welfare entitlement for non-retired non seniors and kids, and it's Medicaid that seniors are signed up for.

Medicare: necessary for those kids that used to be those fetuses that conservatives claimed had a right to life as long as they weren't born yet.  Once they're born, forget about it. Necessary also because of the Typhoid Mary Factor--communicable diseases are, well, socialists because they infect via social means and it takes a social solution for these buggers if the nation is to live at all. We've come out so far ahead of the days of scarlet fever, polio, small pox, syphilis, etc etc etc etc and none of these diseases recognize class lines.

[Woody]

Even the CBO says that Medicare has about 9 years before it reaches destruction.  Ryan has the balls to reach across the aisle and work with a WA lib to revamp his 2011 bill.  The bill still contains a voucher type system but the way the cap and subsidy is decided each year is based on competition between medicare and private insurance. 

[Woody]

Not sure about your sincerity concerning being frank considering your penchant to blame cons, pubs and Ryan.  But being frank we can not sustain the current levels.  Even increasing the taxes that Obama extended and now owns you are not going to put a dent in the liability.  They have to be reformed. 

[Woody]

If we are going to be frank and discuss Ryan's plan we should post a bi-partisan summary:

[/size]1)2)proposal that he advanced in December 2011 with Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR), except that the annual growth cap is now set at GDP+0.5% instead of GDP+1%.[/size]Additionally, if costs per enrollee continued to grow faster than the cap of GDP+0.5%, seniors would have to pay an additional premium to make up the difference. For reference, CBO projects Medicare to grow at GDP+0.8% per beneficiary from 2023-2032 and GDP+1.7% thereafter under current law, which assumes that the cuts from the ACA remain in place and are effective.[/size]
http://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/2012/03/chairman-ryan
[/size]

[Woody]

And let's not forget Medicaid.  Notice I did not leave out the CBO analysis.

[/size]Additionally, instead of the current shared-financing system between the states and federal government, the federal share of Medicaid would be allocated to the states through block grants.[/size][/size][/color]

• The total dollar amount of the block grants would increase annually with population growth and inflation (approximately 3% annually, on average). For reference, Medicaid spending currently has an average annual growth rate of roughly 7%, according to CBO.[/size]expansion CBO analysis: ""[/size][/size][/color]

[/list]

[clistensprechen]

One thing I will not admit on a board like Radio Free Liberal is the fact that a good deal of the Ryan Plan makes practical sense when you get down to specific nuts and bolts. I liked those parts when it was first revealed.

The problem is that we've got nuts on both sides of the aisle that won't let it pass as it stands, without adding outrageous riders to it.  Now what do we do?

[Woody]

One thing I will not admit on a board like Radio Free Liberal is the fact that a good deal of the Ryan Plan makes practical sense when you get down to specific nuts and bolts. I liked those parts when it was first revealed.

The problem is that we've got nuts on both sides of the aisle that won't let it pass as it stands, without adding outrageous riders to it.  Now what do we do?

The Ryan bill passed the house.  Not sure what you mean by both sides.

[clistensprechen]

I know the thing called "The Ryan Bill" passed the House, but did it pass the House intact is the question.

Knowing the House, I doubt it. Members of the House, and on both sides of the aisle, doubtless altered it or tried to.

That's what I mean.

[Woody]

I know the thing called "The Ryan Bill" passed the House, but did it pass the House intact is the question.

Knowing the House, I doubt it. Members of the House, and on both sides of the aisle, doubtless altered it or tried to.

That's what I mean.

We are having a frank discussion.  I won't deal with your suppositions.  I am sure you can use google and find out.

[clistensprechen]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

[wbcoleman]

...and that would include the demand for tax cuts as if it was some kind of entitlement.

Food Stamps: originally for the purpose of benefiting both farmers (who used to be independent farmers) and the poor (who are poor because of 1) underpay from employment 2) disability 3) being a minor 4) being a retired senior).  That's not what it is anymore, and you'd think that the conservatives would be all for it because of the additional tax money that ConAgra and Archer Midland Daniels et al also get from other crop subsidies besides getting the crop price supports via Food Stamps. Food Stamps and subsidies are pro-business programs...aka corporate welfare.

Medicare: Ryan wants to preserve that with the argument about preserving access to health care by seniors...when he knows damn well that Medicare is the welfare entitlement for non-retired non seniors and kids, and it's Medicaid that seniors are signed up for.

Medicare: necessary for those kids that used to be those fetuses that conservatives claimed had a right to life as long as they weren't born yet.  Once they're born, forget about it. Necessary also because of the Typhoid Mary Factor--communicable diseases are, well, socialists because they infect via social means and it takes a social solution for these buggers if the nation is to live at all. We've come out so far ahead of the days of scarlet fever, polio, small pox, syphilis, etc etc etc etc and none of these diseases recognize class lines.

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

[clistensprechen]

...and that would include the demand for tax cuts as if it was some kind of entitlement.

Food Stamps: originally for the purpose of benefiting both farmers (who used to be independent farmers) and the poor (who are poor because of 1) underpay from employment 2) disability 3) being a minor 4) being a retired senior).  That's not what it is anymore, and you'd think that the conservatives would be all for it because of the additional tax money that ConAgra and Archer Midland Daniels et al also get from other crop subsidies besides getting the crop price supports via Food Stamps. Food Stamps and subsidies are pro-business programs...aka corporate welfare.

Medicare: Ryan wants to preserve that with the argument about preserving access to health care by seniors...when he knows damn well that Medicare is the welfare entitlement for non-retired non seniors and kids, and it's Medicaid that seniors are signed up for.

Medicare: necessary for those kids that used to be those fetuses that conservatives claimed had a right to life as long as they weren't born yet.  Once they're born, forget about it. Necessary also because of the Typhoid Mary Factor--communicable diseases are, well, socialists because they infect via social means and it takes a social solution for these buggers if the nation is to live at all. We've come out so far ahead of the days of scarlet fever, polio, small pox, syphilis, etc etc etc etc and none of these diseases recognize class lines.

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

Gee. Not everybody can live on good looks alone like you can. Some of us actually require agriculture to maintain life.

[Woody]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

[wbcoleman]

...and that would include the demand for tax cuts as if it was some kind of entitlement.

Food Stamps: originally for the purpose of benefiting both farmers (who used to be independent farmers) and the poor (who are poor because of 1) underpay from employment 2) disability 3) being a minor 4) being a retired senior).  That's not what it is anymore, and you'd think that the conservatives would be all for it because of the additional tax money that ConAgra and Archer Midland Daniels et al also get from other crop subsidies besides getting the crop price supports via Food Stamps. Food Stamps and subsidies are pro-business programs...aka corporate welfare.

Medicare: Ryan wants to preserve that with the argument about preserving access to health care by seniors...when he knows damn well that Medicare is the welfare entitlement for non-retired non seniors and kids, and it's Medicaid that seniors are signed up for.

Medicare: necessary for those kids that used to be those fetuses that conservatives claimed had a right to life as long as they weren't born yet.  Once they're born, forget about it. Necessary also because of the Typhoid Mary Factor--communicable diseases are, well, socialists because they infect via social means and it takes a social solution for these buggers if the nation is to live at all. We've come out so far ahead of the days of scarlet fever, polio, small pox, syphilis, etc etc etc etc and none of these diseases recognize class lines.

Personally I would abolish the Department of Agriculture and reduce agricultural subsidies to zero.

Gee. Not everybody can live on good looks alone like you can. Some of us actually require agriculture to maintain life.

Ah, so you favor paying farmers not to grow stuff, etc.   Do you like corporate welfare, too?

[clistensprechen]

I'm not discussing this with Google, I'm discussing this with you and other Hypercritters. You don't know what version passed the House, do you.

The one I linked to.  What issues do you have with it?

You're evading the point. I'm asking for the differences between the original and what passed in the House.