Obamacare guts Medicare

[Ted S]

That's the line Republicans have been using against Obama lately. They say that Obamacare steals some $700 billion from Medicare to be used for Obamacare.  In other words, it takes $700 billion from one giant government healthcare program and deposits it in a different giant government healthcare program.

I don't think the Republicans should be using this tactic. It seems stupid to me. Essentially they are saying that you should not vote for Obama because he's going to take money from the government's right hip pocket and put it in the government's left hip pocket. Big effen deal. We're supposed to be up-in-arms over this?

Republicans are never going to beat Democrats at winning the hearts of voters who yearn for gigantic social programs. Democrats are always going to win over the "Gimmee more free stuff" voter. Republicans have to offer real market based alternatives to reponsible and rational thinking people.  They won't win using this Obama will gut Medicare tactic, and if they do, then I will have even less confidence in the collective wisdom of the American voters.

[clistensprechen]

The only "gimme more free stuff" voter there is are the people in Congress.  What's out there in the broader electorate is the "gimme what I earned, dammit" voter, and what they want is Social Security. They don't feel the same way about Medicare, but they do feel like the big pharma and the other medical professional bandits out there are robbing 'em blind, and not a single senior on Medicare today will forget the debacle that was Medicare Part D, and that it was the Republicans who pulled that scam. They might forget everything else, but AARP won't forget.

I agree about your assessment about the losing strategy of the GOP but they seem to be talented in that direction--it's not the first one. It may very well be a losing strategy for the GOP to have picked that band G. E Smith is playing with at the Republican convo, too...it's a peculiar choice of music they're playing, and I guffawed when they played "Busted". I sure wanna know who else is playing in that band.

[Woody]

That's the line Republicans have been using against Obama lately. They say that Obamacare steals some $700 billion from Medicare to be used for Obamacare.  In other words, it takes $700 billion from one giant government healthcare program and deposits it in a different giant government healthcare program.

I don't think the Republicans should be using this tactic. It seems stupid to me. Essentially they are saying that you should not vote for Obama because he's going to take money from the government's right hip pocket and put it in the government's left hip pocket. Big effen deal. We're supposed to be up-in-arms over this?

Republicans are never going to beat Democrats at winning the hearts of voters who yearn for gigantic social programs. Democrats are always going to win over the "Gimmee more free stuff" voter. Republicans have to offer real market based alternatives to reponsible and rational thinking people.  They won't win using this Obama will gut Medicare tactic, and if they do, then I will have even less confidence in the collective wisdom of the American voters.

It isn't aimed at us.  It aimed at the independent who voted for Obama.  It is combating the standard, 30 year old bullshit that the conservatives are going after granny.  Obama is claiming that the cons will end Medicare as we know it.  The republicans are pointing out that in recent memory Obama is the only politician to remove money from medicare despite the scare tactics of the dems.

[Ted S]

It isn't aimed at us.  It aimed at the independent who voted for Obama.  It is combating the standard, 30 year old bullshit that the conservatives are going after granny.  Obama is claiming that the cons will end Medicare as we know it.  The republicans are pointing out that in recent memory Obama is the only politician to remove money from medicare despite the scare tactics of the dems.

I see your point.  It's all about getting votes and fear mongering is indeed an effective tool.  I'd just like to the see conservatives put more time into teaching free market principals because that is a useful lesson with a wide range of applications.

[clistensprechen]

It isn't aimed at us.  It aimed at the independent who voted for Obama.  It is combating the standard, 30 year old bullshit that the conservatives are going after granny.  Obama is claiming that the cons will end Medicare as we know it.  The republicans are pointing out that in recent memory Obama is the only politician to remove money from medicare despite the scare tactics of the dems.

I see your point.  It's all about getting votes and fear mongering is indeed an effective tool.  I'd just like to the see conservatives put more time into teaching free market principals because that is a useful lesson with a wide range of applications.

Yeah, but if they did that, they wouldn't be in a privileged 1% class anymore. They can't have that.

[RWE]

It isn't aimed at us.  It aimed at the independent who voted for Obama.  It is combating the standard, 30 year old bullshit that the conservatives are going after granny.  Obama is claiming that the cons will end Medicare as we know it.  The republicans are pointing out that in recent memory Obama is the only politician to remove money from medicare despite the scare tactics of the dems.

I see your point.  It's all about getting votes and fear mongering is indeed an effective tool.  I'd just like to the see conservatives put more time into teaching free market principals because that is a useful lesson with a wide range of applications.

Yeah, but if they did that, they wouldn't be in a privileged 1% class anymore. They can't have that.

That's exactly why your Democrat Party will also continue it's fear mongering and never teach free market principals. Of course, you would realize that if you were independent of the Democratic Party.

[wbcoleman]

The key fact is that Medicare as presently constituted is unsustainable.  Promising to leave Medicare unchanged is a promise to watch it collapse.

[kentay]

GOP Details Huge Medicare Change In Leaked Platformhttp://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/republican-party-platform-medicare.php

[kentay]

As usual Ted, you pickups a lying GOP talking point without checking it out. Just Google 716 GOP lie on Medicare.  kentay. http://factcheck.org/2012/08/medicares-piggy-bank/FACT CHECK: Obama, Ryan, Romney Backed Medicare Cuts
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/fact-check-obama-ryan-romney-backed-medicare-cuts/


According to the Congressional Budget Office, it's not the patients who would lose money. It's the providers.

The president's changes mean the annual increases insurance companies receive will be trimmed; hospital reimbursement rates would be reduced; and payments to home health care workers will also be cut back.

In fact, vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan's proposed budget contains these same reductions, something CBS News asked Governor Romney about today.
 
"Well, first of all, Congressman Ryan has joined my campaign and his campaign is my campaign now. And we're on the exactly the same page. And my campaign has made it very clear: The president's cuts of $716 billion to Medicare -- those cuts are going to be restored if I become president and Paul Ryan becomes vice president."

The Congressional Budget Office concluded the cuts -- which do not come out of the Medicare trust fund -- actually make Medicare more efficient and extend the life of the program. Additionally, all but four members of the house GOP voted for those same cuts in passing Ryan's budget plan.

Romney's $716B Medicare cut attack is dubious
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57494197/romneys-$716b-medicare-cut-attack-is-dubious/
http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/aug/19/national-republican-congressional-committee/house-democrats-support-gutting-medicare-more-700-/

[clistensprechen]

It isn't aimed at us.  It aimed at the independent who voted for Obama.  It is combating the standard, 30 year old bullshit that the conservatives are going after granny.  Obama is claiming that the cons will end Medicare as we know it.  The republicans are pointing out that in recent memory Obama is the only politician to remove money from medicare despite the scare tactics of the dems.

I see your point.  It's all about getting votes and fear mongering is indeed an effective tool.  I'd just like to the see conservatives put more time into teaching free market principals because that is a useful lesson with a wide range of applications.

Yeah, but if they did that, they wouldn't be in a privileged 1% class anymore. They can't have that.

That's exactly why your Democrat Party will also continue it's fear mongering and never teach free market principals. Of course, you would realize that if you were independent of the Democratic Party.

I'm at least independent to the point of not ever calling 'em the "Democratic Party", which gets me into trouble every time over on Radio Free Liberal. I'll call 'em the Democratic Party when they're actually democratic and I ain't holding my breath on that one. But the GOP has proven in the past couple of days that they're as bad as the Democrat Party, as both parties coronate rather than have membership select their nominees.  And they both fear monger, with the Republicans having a higher favor for ignorance and a higher level of avoidance of teaching than Dems do.

[Ted S]

As usual Ted, you pickups a lying GOP talking point without checking it out. Just Google 716 GOP lie on Medicare. 

Kentay, I didn't "pickups" anything.  I only said that I thought the tactic Republicans were using is foolish.  I made no claims about Medicare myself.  My goodness your reading comprehension is bad.

It's as if you just look for a key word in the title of the post and then just dash-off to the usual left wing sites and copy a big section of text and paste it in as your response.  You're winning the member post word count contest but holy cow you sure turn these threads into a rambling irrelevant mess.

[clistensprechen]

Word to the wise, Ted...there is more than one person registered here for which English is a second language. If you're having trouble with kentay, you should meet gri. If he ever comes back to post again, I can guarantee to you that kentay is a whole lot easier to understand. Gri makes up his own words based on denotative definitions of English root words.  Be happy that kentay makes it easy for you.

[kentay]

As usual Ted, you pickups a lying GOP talking point without checking it out. Just Google 716 GOP lie on Medicare. 

Kentay, I didn't "pickups" anything.  I only said that I thought the tactic Republicans were using is foolish.  I made no claims about Medicare myself.  My goodness your reading comprehension is bad.

It's as if you just look for a key word in the title of the post and then just dash-off to the usual left wing sites and copy a big section of text and paste it in as your response.  You're winning the member post word count contest but holy cow you sure turn these threads into a rambling irrelevant mess.

Look at your lying Header "Obamacare guts Medicare" what was your purpose to make a thread starting with a lie. Enough said. Kentay

[clistensprechen]

To be fair, kentay, the title of the thread references the specific Republican stratagem--which is a lie, I agree, but that is the accurate descriptive of an actual Republican stratagem.

[Ted S]

Look at your lying Header "Obamacare guts Medicare" what was your purpose to make a thread starting with a lie. Enough said. Kentay

All you did was read the headline.  If you had read the entire post you would have very quickly understood that my own opinion is that the gutting of Medicare is really just shifting money from one program to another.

Perhaps you should read more than just the headline.  Oh, and my apologies if English is not your first language.  I was under the impression that you are a retired US military man and I assumed that proficiency in English was a requirement for military duty.