Arming Teachers

[Ted S]

There's a lot of misinformation swirling about on this topic so here's what I know for sure:

1. There should be no federal law requiring teachers to be armed.

2. There should be no federal law banning teachers from being armed.

3. The decision about whether to permit armed school employees should be made at the school district level. That way liberal and conservative districts can cater to their own sensibilities.  Some districts may choose to completely ban guns and others may choose to arm teachers and provide armed guards. Some may choose a fortress made of beautiful daisies and others may take a razor-wire like approach. The bottom line is that school boards would be free to do whatever is right for their area and parents would be free to vote the board members out if they make the wrong decision.

Now here's what I would do if I were the principal of my local elementary school and tasked with providing security:

Before the school year started I would call of meeting all staff and tell them that since we have two wings on the school we should have two armed employees, preferably one in each wing. I would solicit only volunteers, nobody would be compelled to take this responsibility on. I would look for people that tended to remain calm in stressful situations and had past military experience or experience with weapons.

Since there will be only two armed individuals they might not be teachers. They might be custodians or administrators, but it could be teachers.

If they were teachers I would NOT provide them with handguns, they would be given one of the so-called high capacity assault rifles. The rifle would stay in a locked gun safe which is stored in the area of the classroom where the students huddle during the lock-down drills. Only the teacher would have the key.  Why not handguns?  They are too bulky to carry around all the time and too difficult to shoot straight.

I would have a small budget just big enough for two individuals to take the weapons to the range a couple times during the school year to shoot some practice rounds.

I'm not a gun enthusiast, at all, but I have shot guns various times over the years. Whenever I've fired a handgun I've found it very hard to hit the target unless I was very close to it. Add the panic atmosphere into the equation and anything beyond 10 feet is likely to be missed.

I've fired a 12 gauge shotgun a few times and the kickback is enough to knock you off your feet or knock the gun out of your own hands unless you are prepared. The wide spray of the pellets could be advantageous but the kick is too much in my opinion.

When I was in the USAF I fired an M-16 at the shooting range a few times and I think it is much better suited for the task.  There is virtually no kickback.  You can shoot it repeatedly and it remains solidly in your hands, doesn't bruise your shoulder, doesn't roar like a shotgun, and is very light and accurate.  Since the chances of missing the target are great I would have a reasonably large clip. You wouldn't want a teacher to have to figure out where to carry the extra clips in a situation like Sandy Hook.

Lastly, I would advise the armed employees that they are not expected to act like a highly trained security force.  The chances of them ever needing to fire the weapon are a million-to-one.  They are to use their best judgement given the situation at hand. If they can run away, do that.  If they can talk their way out, do that. Firing back is the last resort in a life or death situation.

[Don Houston]

Ted,
While I agree with your theory, the problem is you forget that people like to play hero if and when they can.  That being said I think that we should have armed security guards and not armed teachers.  Maybe post 2 in each wing that way both sides can be protected at the same time

[Ted S]

While I agree with your theory, the problem is you forget that people like to play hero if and when they can.

I disagree. People like to avoid trouble and many will do nothing thinking it is somebody else's responsibility.  I don't buy the hero angle.  Ever watch that TV show "What Would You Do?" In unusual situations most people choose not to get involved and and I've got to think that when real bullets are flying most people will turn and run.

That being said I think that we should have armed security guards and not armed teachers.  Maybe post 2 in each wing that way both sides can be protected at the same time

At least four full-time security guards for every school?  That will cost a fortune and the chances of there being an actual shooting at any given school are infinitesimal.  I would guess that the chances of the school catching fire is greater so perhaps we should have a fire engine and full crew standing by in the parking lot in case fire breaks out.

We need to keep all of this in perspective.

If it's a large urban school with a lot of gang activity then four armed guards might not be enough.  If it's a small school in an affluent neighborhood then a couple of teachers willing to take on the responsibility -- that there is only a one-in-a-million chance they will ever have to use -- may be enough.  This is why the decisions need to be made at the lowest level possible.

And remember, doing nothing is always an option.

[Don Houston]

This is true.  But you forget most schools have security patrols anyway.  Well, most high schools or at least the two I went to had security but they were unarmed to my knowledge

[clistensprechen]

I thought I'd never see the day when a con was in favor of expanding government...but here, in this thread, you have 'em. Whoaaaah.

Teachers aren't paid enough for the work they currently do; adding to what they currently do is not an option.

[Don Houston]

I am not a con by any means.  I vote for who I think the best person is.  I have voted for both parties and depending on who I thought was better was who I voted for.  I am not nor have I ever been a party person.  I voted for Obama in 2008

[Ted S]

Teachers aren't paid enough for the work they currently do...

Some may not be paid enough...... but some are clearly paid too much. That blanket statement really tells us that Clara thinks teaching is one of the "pedestal" professions.  In fairness, Cons see military service as a "pedestal" profession so both sides have a certain amount of blind loyalty to their favorite profession.

...adding to what they currently do is not an option.

Huh? Providing a teacher with a tool that could be used to save their own life is some sort of burden that they deserve to be compensated for?  Exactly how many minutes out of a teacher's day do you think they will spend firing back on mass murderers?  This isn't even a once in a lifetime thing for 99.9% of the teachers.  The only thing that would consume some time is a couple practice sessions at the range.  But shooting is so much fun that I'd do it for nothing if I were a teacher and the school was picking up the tab for the range fee and the ammo.

[wbcoleman]

I thought I'd never see the day when a con was in favor of expanding government...but here, in this thread, you have 'em. Whoaaaah.

Teachers aren't paid enough for the work they currently do; adding to what they currently do is not an option.

How much more "should" teachers be paid?

[clistensprechen]

I thought I'd never see the day when a con was in favor of expanding government...but here, in this thread, you have 'em. Whoaaaah.

Teachers aren't paid enough for the work they currently do; adding to what they currently do is not an option.

How much more "should" teachers be paid?

Considering the brats they have to deal with plus hostile administration, they deserve what they're making now plus combat pay. And that's before anyone gives 'em guns and gives 'em more work to do.

[donni]

yes, i think ur right clara...about the pay.

i was thinking more along the lines of what ted posted. perhaps the weapon should be in a type of device like an fire extinguisher is kept-you know, so u had to break the glass and an alarm would go off, telling all there is a definite problem going on that requires action of some sort-whether that be to file out like in any drill, or take cover/hide/be prepared to defend. the alarm should be it's own sound so that you know what ur dealing with-fire or mayhem. then yea, have reasonable volunteers of the school to train with the weapon-so that they are familiar and comfortable with it-they should get paid BOOKO BUCKS for doing it, too. we can never protect ourselves from every event but some things make sense, while others just turn us into bleating sheep waiting for someone else to 'save' us.

[Ted S]

My wife works as the receptionist at a public elementary school.  She has a button under the front counter that trips a silent alarm that summons the police.

The school also practices "lock-downs" at least twice during the school year and they use the paging system to alert the staff during lock-downs.

A number of years ago there was an incident at a school in one of the southern states -- Arkansas I think.  A couple of boys pulled a fire alarm, ran up a close-by hill and then shot the students and the teachers as they exited the school.  I'm pretty sure they stopped shooting after the vice principal went to his own car, retrieved his rifle, and fired back at the boys.

[wbcoleman]

I thought I'd never see the day when a con was in favor of expanding government...but here, in this thread, you have 'em. Whoaaaah.

Teachers aren't paid enough for the work they currently do; adding to what they currently do is not an option.

How much more "should" teachers be paid?

Considering the brats they have to deal with plus hostile administration, they deserve what they're making now plus combat pay. And that's before anyone gives 'em guns and gives 'em more work to do.

OK, but you said teachers aren't paid enough, so how much more should they be paid?  10% more?  50% more?  200% more?