Author Topic: Hypocrite  (Read 140 times)

Offline clistensprechen

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2012, 11:40:30 pm »
Sorry, but it's the truth whether or not somebody has adopted it as a talking point.

Talking points usually have spin, but this is a fact that has no spin to it. People who lose jobs will also lose houses because they can no longer pay the mortgage. The housing bubble that burst didn't burst because people who originally couldn't afford a house signed up to buy one--THAT is a false talking point.  The people who underwent foreclosures are the middle class, and this happened during Dubya's regime.

Nothing either you or I could say is going to change that fact.

Yes Bush was President, please show us HIS policy that made it possible.

Also most of those mortgages were in trouble because of sub prime lending.  Those people had a revolving interest rate and whem the house payments went up, what happened?  People could not afford the payments.  Look it  up, its all right there

You've swallowed right wing mythology, I see. Since when was the middle class sub-prime? They're the ones losing their homes. Because they lost their jobs.  Try again.

Offline wbcoleman

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2012, 11:12:05 pm »
Sorry, but it's the truth whether or not somebody has adopted it as a talking point.

Talking points usually have spin, but this is a fact that has no spin to it. People who lose jobs will also lose houses because they can no longer pay the mortgage. The housing bubble that burst didn't burst because people who originally couldn't afford a house signed up to buy one--THAT is a false talking point.  The people who underwent foreclosures are the middle class, and this happened during Dubya's regime.

Nothing either you or I could say is going to change that fact.

Wait a minute.  You're telling us that the foreclosures are Bush's fault because "this happened during Dubya's regime"?  Are you sure that's the position you want to take?
Zionism is the National Liberation Movement of the Jewish People.

Offline kentay

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2012, 06:58:23 am »
Sorry, but it's the truth whether or not somebody has adopted it as a talking point.

Talking points usually have spin, but this is a fact that has no spin to it. People who lose jobs will also lose houses because they can no longer pay the mortgage. The housing bubble that burst didn't burst because people who originally couldn't afford a house signed up to buy one--THAT is a false talking point.  The people who underwent foreclosures are the middle class, and this happened during Dubya's regime.

Nothing either you or I could say is going to change that fact.

Wait a minute.  You're telling us that the foreclosures are Bush's fault because "this happened during Dubya's regime"?  Are you sure that's the position you want to take?

Yes that's what I am saying it was the result of the Bush economy and how they removed most of regulation, placed unqualified people in charge and turned unregulated Capitalism loose. And we see the results of that kind of economic philosophy and what happens to our people, when the bubble bust. kentay
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Offline RWE

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 07:25:44 am »
The great Bush 'deregulation' myth
http://www.jeffjacoby.com/602/the-great-bush-deregulation-myth
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On July 31, 2002, declaring that free markets must not be "a financial free-for-all guided only by greed," he[Bush] signed the Sarbanes-Oxley law, a sweeping overhaul of corporate fraud, securities, and accounting laws. Among its many tough provisions, the law created a new regulatory agency to oversee public accounting firms and auditors, and imposed an array of new requirements for financial reporting and corporate audits.
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The Founding Fathers established the first Dept. of Homeland Security. They called it "a Well Regulated Militia."

Offline Ted S

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 08:32:22 am »
According to my very quick assessment of the government's own data, the Bush administration ADDED 19,925 pages of regulations between 2000 and 2008.  This hardly seems like deregulation.

Offline kentay

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2012, 09:00:31 am »
A Nation of Village Idiots
by James Moore

Don't let them tell you this economic meltdown is a complicated mess. It's not. Our national financial crisis is readily understood by anyone who has seen greed and hypocrisy. But we are now witnessing them on a profound, monumental scale.

Conservative Republicans always want the government to stay out of business and avoid regulation as long as they are making lots of money. When their greed, however, gets them into a fix, they are the first to cry out for rules and laws and taxpayer money to bail out their businesses. Obviously, Republicans are socialists. The Bush administration has decided to socialize the debt of the big Wall Street Firms. Taxpayers didn't get to enjoy any of the big money profits on the phony financial instruments like derivatives or bundled sub-prime paper, but we get the privilege of paying for their debt and failures.

Let's just consider the money. The public bailout of insurance giant (becoming a dwarf) AIG is estimated at $85 billion. According to one report, that's more than the Bush administration spent on Aid to Families with Dependent Children during his entire time in office. That amount of money would also pay for health care for every man, woman, and child in America for at least six months.

How did we get here?

That's pretty easy to answer, too. His name is Phil Gramm. A few days after the Supreme Court made George W. Bush president in 2000, Gramm stuck something called the Commodity Futures Modernization Act into the budget bill. Nobody knew that the Texas senator was slipping America a 262 page poison pill. The Gramm Guts America Act was designed to keep regulators from controlling new financial tools described as credit "swaps." These are instruments like sub-prime mortgages bundled up and sold as securities. Under the Gramm law, neither the SEC nor the Commodities Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) were able to examine financial institutions like hedge funds or investment banks to guarantee they had the assets necessary to cover losses they were guaranteeing.

This isn't small beer we are talking about here. The market for these fancy financial instruments they don't expect us little people to understand is estimated at $60 trillion annually, which amounts to almost four times the entire US stock market.
And Senator Phil Gramm wanted it completely unregulated. So did Alan Greenspan, who supported the legislation and is now running around to the talk shows jabbering about the horror of it all. Before the highly paid lobbyists were done slinging their gold card guts about the halls of congress, every one from hedge funds to banks were playing with fire for fun and profit.
Gramm didn't just make a fairy tale world for Wall Street, though. He included in his bill a provision that prevented the regulation of energy trading markets, which led us to the Enron collapse. There was no collapse of the house of Gramm, however, because his wife Wendy, who once headed up the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, took a job on the Enron board that provided almost $2 million to their household kitty. And why not? Wendy got a CFTC rule passed that kept the federal government from regulating energy futures contracts at Enron.

If John McCain gets elected and chooses Phil Gramm as his Treasury Secretary, which many politico types see as likely, they will be able to talk about the good old days when Gramm was in congress and McCain was in the senate and they were in the midst of the Savings and Loan crisis.

The S and L scandal, which may look precious when compared to our present cascade of problems, isn't hard to understand, either. But it is impossible to take John McCain seriously on our current financial Armageddon since he was dabbling in the historic collapse of 747 S&Ls that occurred during Ronald Reagan's era. In the early 80s under the Republican president, congress deregulated the savings and loan industry in much the same way that Gramm made sure there were no laws hindering our current financial malefactors on Wall Street. S&Ls simply lobbied until they had less regulation and then began making rampant, unsound investments.

The guy who was going the wildest with financial freedom was Charles Keating, who headed up Lincoln Savings and Loan of California. Because the S&L industry had managed to get congress to increase FDIC insurance from $40,000 to $100,000 on deposits, the irresponsible investing of people like Keating began to put taxpayer insurance funds at great risk of loss. Keating placed money in junk bonds and questionable real estate projects and because so many other S&Ls started acting the same way the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB) began to push for a regulation that limited these dangerous speculative "direct" investments to 10% of an S&L's assets.

And Keating didn't like it; he called on a private economist named Alan Greenspan, who promptly produced a study saying that there was no danger in "direct" investments.

But that didn't convince the FHLBB and as further scrutiny showed Lincoln Savings and Loan was making even more historically bad investment decisions, a federal investigation was launched.
So Keating called his home state senator John McCain.

McCain and four other US senators (known to history as the Keating Five) met with Edwin Gray, then chairman of the FHLBB. McCain had been hesitant to attend but had reportedly been called a "wimp" behind his back by Keating. The message to the FHLBB and Gray from the Keating Five was to lay off Lincoln and cool the investigation. Gray and the FHLBB did not relent but Lincoln stayed in business until 1989 when it collapsed with the rest of the S&L industry. The life savings of more than 20,000 elderly investors disappeared with the failure of Lincoln. Keating went to prison for five years.

Charles Keating was John McCain's pal. They met in 1981 and Keating dumped $112,000 in the McCain campaign bank accounts between '82 and '87. A year before McCain met with the FHLBB regulators, his wife Cindy and her father, according to newspaper reports at the time, invested about $360,000 in one of Keating's shopping centers. The Arizona Republic reported McCain and his wife and their babysitter took nine trips on Keating's private jet to the Bahamas to stay at the S&L liar's decadent Cat Cay resort. The senator didn't pay Keating back for the plane rides until years later when he was under investigation.

McCain wasn't found guilty of anything but bad judgment, which is an historic understatement. Republicans, who led deregulation of the S&L industry, delayed the bailout until after the 1988 election to make sure George H. W. won the White House. The cost to taxpayers for helping these 747 bad actors in the S&L industry was finally estimated at $1.4 trillion. If the bailout had begun in 1986 instead of after the presidential election, the cost would have been contained at $20 billion.
And now the Republicans who engineered our present crisis and got us into the S&L debacle of the 80s are before us saying the markets need regulation. No, actually, they don't need regulation. Why don't you Republican capitalists who believe in the free markets get out of the damned way and let them work and allow these various financial nuthouses be crushed by the weight of their own stupidity? When it is all over, we'll have sane and sober people create laws to make sure it doesn't happen again, assuming we survive this chaos.

Also, while you are handing out our tax money to idiots on Wall Street, save a little of the long green for the unemployed auto and construction workers and all of the other people who have lost their jobs because you were too stupid to notice what Phil Gramm was doing and you were convinced everything was going to be just fine because the markets work.
These, then, are the people -- the Republicans -- who want to run our government for four more years. John McCain isn't just one of them. He rides their jets. He takes their campaign donations. He makes them his campaign advisors. And he tells us to trust him.

He must think we are a nation of village idiots.
Hell, maybe we are.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/a-nation-of-village-idiot_b_127340.html
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Offline Ted S

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 09:28:57 am »
You posted an opinion piece from HuffPo and I posted a link to actual data from the government's own Federal Register showing that Bush significantly increased the volume of regulations.  Opinion vs actual data.  Checkmate.

Offline RWE

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 09:36:50 am »
"In the early 80s under the Republican president, congress deregulated the savings and loan industry"
Forgot to mention that  it was a democrat Congress which wrote and passed the deregulation before Reagan signed it.

"McCain and four other US senators (known to history as the Keating Five) "
Forgot to mention that the other 4 out of the Keating Five were democrat senators.

"Also, while you are handing out our tax money to idiots on Wall Street,..."
Well' the author couldn't have known that Obama would give all those TARP $billions to wall Street.


The Founding Fathers established the first Dept. of Homeland Security. They called it "a Well Regulated Militia."

Offline kentay

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2012, 04:02:01 pm »
"In the early 80s under the Republican president, congress deregulated the savings and loan industry"
Forgot to mention that  it was a democrat Congress which wrote and passed the deregulation before Reagan signed it.

"McCain and four other US senators (known to history as the Keating Five) "
Forgot to mention that the other 4 out of the Keating Five were democrat senators.

"Also, while you are handing out our tax money to idiots on Wall Street,..."
Well' the author couldn't have known that Obama would give all those TARP $billions to wall Street.


The Treasury Department said it had already recovered more than it invested in TARP's bank programs through repayments and other income.Overall, the government is now expected to at least break even on its financial stability programs and may realize a positive return," Treasury said in a report last week.  Do you want to try again RWE? Do you think we can get our wasted money back on the Iraq Bush war of choice, that you supported?    Kentay

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303978104577364262736412398.html
Republican Campaign Mantra:
We turned over a real mess to President Obama, he hasn't cleaned it up fast enough, so give us another chance to  create a depression.

Offline Woody

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Re: Hypocrite
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2012, 04:07:29 pm »
"In the early 80s under the Republican president, congress deregulated the savings and loan industry"
Forgot to mention that  it was a democrat Congress which wrote and passed the deregulation before Reagan signed it.

"McCain and four other US senators (known to history as the Keating Five) "
Forgot to mention that the other 4 out of the Keating Five were democrat senat


"Also, while you are handing out our tax money to idiots on Wall Street,..."
Well' the author couldn't have known that Obama would give all those TARP $billions to wall Street.


The Treasury Department said it had already recovered more than it invested in TARP's bank programs through repayments and other income.Overall, the government is now expected to at least break even on its financial stability programs and may realize a positive return," Treasury said in a report last week.  Do you want to try again RWE? Do you think we can get our wasted money back on the Iraq Bush war of choice, that you supported?    Kentay

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303978104577364262736412398.html


Your article makes the opposite claim:





 
Updated April 24, 2012, 8:31 p.m. ETTARP: Billions in Loans in Doubt
BY VICTORIA MCGRANE,ROBIN SIDEL AND JEFFREY SPARSHOTTHundreds of small banks can't afford to repay federal bailout loans, a top watchdog will warn Wednesday in a report that challenges the government's upbeat assessment of its financial-system rescue.Christy Romero, special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, said 351 small banks with some $15 billion in outstanding TARP loans face a "significant challenge" in raising new funds to repay the government.Ms. Romero made the comments in her quarterly report to Congress, the first since the Senate approved her appointment in March as special inspector general for the program. She urged the government and regulators to ...


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A reminder for kentay:
I fully support going back to ALL, that says ALL THE CLINTON TAX and spend policies that led to the economic boom in the second half of the 90's.